Steve WILLIAMS (Jazz Hot 624)

Steve Williams was born in Rochester (NY) in 1956, January 7th. Very rapidly he played with the greatest jazzmen : Milt Jackson, Miles Davis, Wynton et Brandford Marsalis, Freddie Hubbard, Joe Williams, Gary Bartz, John Hicks, Clifford Jordan, Woody Shaw, Mulgrew Miller, Toots Thielemans, Carmen Mc Rae, Roy Hargrove. He is wanted for his rythm and musical sense, for his pulse and support to the soloist. What has been making him the regular drummer in the great singer Shirley Horn Trio for 30 years. Above all his qualities as a musician the man is very humble, with clear and precise ideas, knowing perfectly how to analyse what he plays. He is a pleasant and kind person. He was great in Stanley Cowell Trio in an unforgettable concert at the Fort Napoléon festival.

Interview by Serge Baudot

Jazz Hot : How did you come to play the set of drums ?
Steve Williams : Actually I saw a picture of an album that my father had, he had many records and played music all the time, I kept looking at the albums, I wasn’t quite sure what the function of the drum set was, but I liked the look of that picture. My father played many records for me, I heard Miles Davis Porgy And Bess and I heard Philly Jo Jones, then I said : Woah ! he can do that with the drums ! I want to do that. My dad took me to the music store, I had a look at the set of drums, and he bought me a paper drum set, I don’t remember how old I was, I was a little kid.My brother and I used to bash away in the basement of my house ; I’ve been in love with the drums ever since.

What was your brother playing ?
The bass.

Your father was a musician ?
He sang in a choir and he played the euphonia, an instrument smaller than a tuba. He was a very good reader, and played all kind of musics in the house. We listened to James Brown, Sly and The Family Stones, and of course jazz and classical records. I was fortunate that way.

Did he teach You ?
No, he did not. I knew nothing about what a note of music was, or how to play the piano. I didn’t learn until highschool.

Then you started to learn the piano ?
I learned the classical piano in highschool, very simple excercises. Then I knew there was so many written music, ancient music, choirs, symphonies.

How old were you when you started to play the drums ?
I would say when I was bashing with my brother with my toy set of drums, it was the year the Beatles came, J.F Kennedy came at the White House, sixty something.

Did you take any lessons ?
I have never taken any lessons until I was in highschool. And I never took drum lessons. In fact when I was in my last year highschool I was in a lot of trouble, I wasn’t lucky with my parents , that’s when I learned there was written music for drums, and percussions, xylophone, marimba, snear drum, triangles, etc…I didn’t know that existed. Then I got lessons for a variety of instruments : the marimba, glocks. I didn’t know there were keyboard instruments in percussions ; I thought it was just drums.

Did you go to a great school ?
After my highschool I took a year and came back to Washington. Then I went for a year to the university of Miami, and there I was music education major. I got quickly involved in playing in clubs with Curtis Lundy, Carmen Lundy. I was horrible, really unexperienced. At the time they were very advanced, they knew Earth Wind And Fire songs, many standards, and I learned on the bandstand.

Which drummers did you admire at the beginning ?
Philly Jo Jones of course, Elvin Jones, Art Blakey, later in my life when the fusion was there I used to like Lenny White, Billy Cobham, and then when I moved to New York I met many drummers that were around my age, people like Victor Lewis, Billy Hart…

Did you try to imitate one of them ?
Oh yes, all of them ! Desperatly imitating Philly Jo Jones, Art Blakey. I think in order to have a voice in this music you have to understand the tradition mostly by imitating somebody that has forged a piece of history. And then you move on to try to find yourself. It’s basically where I am now, I think. Music is most challenging.

Do you think it’s still possible to invent something in the drum set ?
Yes, I hear all the time, I listen to records, to Bill Stewart , there I heard something I had never heard before.

Are you interested in other kinds of musics ?
Yes, all kinds, everything. I’m waiting to go to Africa.You know what I want to hear ? I want to hear many african drummers, I want to hear each country, what language of drums or rythms they speak. I’m most interested in Indian rythms, from Java. I want to understand the meaning of their rythms, because they have meanings .

What’s your conception of the role of the drum in the trio ?
I can answer that in two ways. I am part of a very great trio with Shirley Horn, a great singer and a great pianist, I’ve been playing with her for 30 years now, and my role in that is to play as musically as possible, supportedly as possible. Because Shirley sings and she plays the piano, so I got the two visions of what the big responsabilty that the drummer has to play in a trio, and to play rythmically with the support, but musically because you can’t just tap off the beat, you can’t just tap off time in a trio, because there are only 3 people, you have to contribute, in order to contribute you have to understand form, to understand rythm. Shirley is all of that, there would be harmony, rythm, expression, form and melody. So I think of all those things when I play in a trio.

How do you share with the bass ?
I try to make my ride cymbal simple, to have one sound with the bass. When the bass plays one note I want my drum stick hit the cymbal in the same space (He sings it) Not all the time, but to have one sound go, so that the person who’s taking a solo fells relaxed. My ride cymbal matches, it makes it easier for the singer to sing, for the soloist to play.

In this trio with Stan Cowell (p) et Ted Trimble (b), many things seem to be written ?
Yes, this is written music. I was fortunate to get the music before the tour, so I memorized it, even my part. It’s very structured and Stanley (Cowell) is for me a wonderful writer, and a wonderful teacher. I learn something every night. I learn the different roles. This is new for me, I haven’t played his music ever before. But I still use those fundamental things about playing good time, and playing melodically. But in the structure of Stanley’s music it’s very important to free yourself of some of the things that the drummers have. It’s been a challenge for me.

Do you like to take solos ?
I have to say that I love to hear drummers take solos . I like to take solos, it’s ok, but I don’t know yet if I have enough experience on the bandstand to really…I can play a solo within the music if I am careful. I need to say that at the end of a long piece of music, like Stanley’s music, I don’t need to take a solo because I’m playing so many different things. But I do enjoy that, and I do enjoy drummers who are very good at that. It’s like writing an essay, you have the opening, statement, you have to have a body. I think there’s one thing I’d like to work on more, the harmony.

So, you have been involved in jazz since you were born ?
Jazz was in my house, I didn’t know what it was at first.

And now do you know what jazz is ?
Yes I do. Jazz is purely art and expression of the human. It’s pain, it’s pleasure, it’s beauty, it’s ugly, I mean painfully not nice, from all of that comes music, jazz. It’s folk music, I don’t mean what people in America call folk music with the guitar, but music from a people.

Can you tell what makes the difference between jazz and others musics ?
Yes. First of all jazz is a music born in a country where the people were responsible for creating this music. This music comes out of a people that was oppressed , more than oppressed, that’s what’s important. It grew in a country where they didn’t recognize the people who created this music, which is part of the american culture. It’s a difficult subject but for sure many jazz musicians study all kind of music nowadays.

But even before, there were classical black musicians in New Orleans in the 19th century ?
Yes, exactly. This is what makes jazz such a special music, because it includes so many things. It just happened to be born in America. It’s born there, but it ‘s given to everybody. Everybody can appreciate.

Do you think a jazz without swing can exist ?
No ! (laughs) I don’t think so. Even the most avant-garde musicians swing, at one point or another. Other than that I don’t think it’s jazz. You can play different ways, you can play modal, but at one point when the music has a bit of the tradition, it swings !

Can you tell what swing is ?
Ah ! I tap my foot on the floor ! (Laughs) If I can tap my foot, it’s swinging. Shirley was big on making the band swing, and she would move her head and tap her feet, and say : Now you’re swinging, now you’re playing jazz.

Is it possible to explain what it is ?
That’s really something I don’t know, I don’t…This isn’t a good answer. I know when I hear it. When it’s not there I can say it’s not there ! You can have great musicians playing standards but not swinging, and ordinary musician in another band, with the same standard, and they swing. And we all hear that. I guess I’m old fashioned. (Laughs)-

Do you think it’s possible to learn how to swing ?
You can learn things about swing, but I think there are people that are born with, and they can just swing. Born and make it swings right away ! When they wake up in the morning they can swing. They can be drinking all night, they come to the band and they swing. How many music schools you have, and how many music programmes…A music programme can’t tell you how to swing, there’s no… It’s too intangible. You can’t say do this and you will swing. You have to feel it.