Jazz Hot “en V.O.”

Mike MAINIERI (Jazz Hot 628)

By Serge Baudot

Born in New York on the 4th of july (and not the 24th as it is written everywhere) 1938, Mike Mainieri is one of the greatest vibraphonists in the jazz history, a survivor, with Gary Burton, of a great vibraphone era. We know his mastery in all fields, and he might be the first one to have used in all its possibilities the technique of 4 mallets with different grips, and this before Gary Burton who is nevertheless renowed for being the first one. He is also the inventor of the syntivibe, which gives other sounds and other possibilities to the vibraphone. In 1981 he founded Steps Ahead with Steve Gadd (dm), Eddie Gomez (b) et Michael Brecker (s), a group which was to be on the charts for a long time, and which comes to life again from time to time with different people. The man is humble, pleasant, very kind, like almost all the great jazzmen.
We met him at " Jazz à Toulon " after an unforgettable concert with Steps Ahead in front of 8000 people.

Jazz Hot : How did you begin with the vibraphone ?
Mike Mainieri : When I was a small boy my father took me to see Lionel Hampton, I loved the way he played the vibes, and I loved also the way he played the drums, but at the end of his show he tap-danced, and I was a tap-dancer, so was my father, I was 8 or 9, maybe 10. And I fell in love with the vibes. I started to play very well and at the age of 14 I had a jazz trio, with a girl of 16 at the guitar, and a friend of 16 at he bass, and we started touring with Paul Whiteman.

But in 1952 you played with him ?
Yes, in a radio show.

What sort of an experience was it for a young boy?
It was …frightening for a 14 year old boy (laughs). He taught me a lot. He taught me how to handle pressure, and also it really gave me the experience that I just needed a few years later when I was with Buddy Rich, in a small group. I always played in a small group. It was like going to school.

Who did you learn the vibes with ?
I had a private teacher who used a quite unusual technique, with four mallets. And then I studied classical percussions : drums, timbals, xylophone, cymbals, etc…, because I wanted to go to the 0Julliard School of Music. So I got a full scholarship in Julliard, but I got a phone call from Buddy Rich, and then (Laughs)…I was on the road ! I didn’t go to college !

Do you play another instrument ?
I play some piano.

Like Lionel Hampton ?
Yes, I can play with 2 fingers, sometimes with 4 ! (Laughs)

Who were your Heroes when you began ? Red Norvo ?
In those days that was Red because he was playing with 4 mallets, Hampton was playing with 2 .And Red Norvo Trio was really wonderful, he chose Mingus, and Tal Farlow. I listened to the Hampton records. Of course Milt Jackson. They are my three influences.

Did you try to imitate them ?
Absolutely ! I tried to study Hampton. But because I played with 4 mallets, I went soon to one record of Norvo, I think it’s called Move, with Tal farlow and Charles Mingus. It was beginful as a vibraphonist. Then I heard those beautiful records of the early Milt jackson. I would learn, and I learned from lots of jazz musicians too.

Who did you admire, apart from the vibraphonists ?
Later, when I was playing with Buddy Rich - we always played opposite another group - we would play with Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers, with Miles Davis, with Count Basie sometimes. Many, many groups at Birdland, this fantastic jazz club. I have to say that Miles Davis, of all the musicians and band leaders, would be the greatest for me, he was to me the most originally, band leader, of all time The way he evolved, the way he made music evolved, he brought young musicians into his level. To play with Miles was really shocking.

It is said you stopped playing for a few years, retiring in Woodstock ?
Yes I moved to Woodstock there, I started amplifying the vibraphone. In the sixties I was playing with Jeremy Steig and the Satyrs, I was playing with the jazz rock guys, before Bitches Brew, in 64, 65, 66. Hendricks was sitting in, and Zappa, all those guys ; they were experimenting. I didn’t drop out, I just moved to Woodstock because I started playing with folk singers. And I bought a great farm out there, a vineyard. I was beginning Hippy (Laughs). So I raised my children on the farm, I have 8 children, and I played music. That was my life !

What about the synthivibe ?
I was going to use it in this tour because Michael Brecker was going to use his electric EWI, but as Mike came very ill, I didn’t take it. But I use amplification of the vibraphone, pick ups in each bar. Without that you would not hear me in this band ! (Laughs)

Was was your big band, The White Elephants ?
A big jam band, after we played in the studios, after records sessions. The hippies and musicians, we would get together and we would jam in the middle of the night. That’s where started Michael Brecker, and Randy Brecker, John Faddis, Steve Gadd, Tony Levine, Ronnie Cuber, Lew Soloff, I can go on and on…Sometimes 30 or 40 musicians would come. We just played on a vamp for like an hour, and singing. It was fantastic !

What about your producer job at Warner in the 70's?
I produced independently, jazz records, and pop records too : Paul Simon, American Pie, Dire Straits, Airo Smith…a lot of different things.

Do you see any new trend in the way of playing the vibraphone ?
I don’t see any new trend in the vibraphone, no. I think there are excellent vibraphonists, but I don’t see any new thing. But for almost the last 30 years, nobody apart from king Gary Burton who is a fantastic musician. You know the kids are going to Berklee and they are just playing to one way. That’s what is accepted in all universities, just one grip and one style of playing. I think in the last 8, 9 years, the vibraphonists seem to go back and listen to Milt, and Bobby Hutcherson, guys like me, using 4 mallets, with different grips. Oh ! there are a lot of young players, Joe Locke, Stefan Hays, Steve Lou Nelson, those guys wouldn’t have been accepted years ago, as long as there is one way to play. Last night a French kid came to me and said : Why don’t you play your mallets like Gary Burton ? I answered : Because I am me ! (Laughs) And I gave Gary Burton lessons !

What is jazz for you ?
Jazz is the way…even pop music…This african-american music connects pop, R-and-B, and funk, and rock : it all come from the jazz roots, from the african-american musicians. So, those beats, that groove connect all of us, and no matter where you are in the world. It’s like speaking somebody’s other language. You can just sit down and communicate through jazz. It breaks down all the barriers. That’s what it is to me. It’s a universal language.

What makes the difference between jazz and the other musics ?
That groove, the 6/8 cymbal beat (He sings it). The swing, which comes from that african beat (Sings again to demonstrate). 3 against 2. That’s universal now, even in rock music, funk, rap, everything, all has that inside swing. Well, it’s hard to explain it.

Are you going to make a record with this group ?
Maybe. But They’re all band leaders, they all make their records, so…I never know ; I’d like too


Mike MAINIERI (Jazz Hot 628) By Serge Baudot Born in New York on the 4th of july (and not the 24th as it is written everywhere) 1938, Mike Mainieri is one of the greatest vibraphonists in the jazz history, a survivor, with Gary Burton, of a great vibraphone era. We know his mastery in all fields, and he might be the first one to have used in all its possibilities the technique of 4 mallets with different grips, and this before Gary Burton who is nevertheless renowed for being the first one. He is also the inventor of the syntivibe, which gives other sounds and other possibilities to the vibraphone. In 1981 he founded Steps Ahead with Steve Gadd (dm), Eddie Gomez (b) et Michael Brecker (s), a group which was to be on the charts for a long time, and which comes to life again from time to time with different people. The man is humble, pleasant, very kind, like almost all the great jazzmen. We met him at " Jazz à Toulon " after an unforgettable concert with Steps Ahead in front of 8000 people. Jazz Hot : How did you begin with the vibraphone ? Mike Mainieri : When I was a small boy my father took me to see Lionel Hampton, I loved the way he played the vibes, and I loved also the way he played the drums, but at the end of his show he tap-danced, and I was a tap-dancer, so was my father, I was 8 or 9, maybe 10. And I fell in love with the vibes. I started to play very well and at the age of 14 I had a jazz trio, with a girl of 16 at the guitar, and a friend of 16 at he bass, and we started touring with Paul Whiteman. But in 1952 you played with him ? Yes, in a radio show. What sort of an experience was it for a young boy? It was …frightening for a 14 year old boy (laughs). He taught me a lot. He taught me how to handle pressure, and also it really gave me the experience that I just needed a few years later when I was with Buddy Rich, in a small group. I always played in a small group. It was like going to school. Who did you learn the vibes with ? I had a private teacher who used a quite unusual technique, with four mallets. And then I studied classical percussions : drums, timbals, xylophone, cymbals, etc…, because I wanted to go to the 0Julliard School of Music. So I got a full scholarship in Julliard, but I got a phone call from Buddy Rich, and then (Laughs)…I was on the road ! I didn’t go to college ! Do you play another instrument ? I play some piano. Like Lionel Hampton ? Yes, I can play with 2 fingers, sometimes with 4 ! (Laughs) Who were your Heroes when you began ? Red Norvo ? In those days that was Red because he was playing with 4 mallets, Hampton was playing with 2 .And Red Norvo Trio was really wonderful, he chose Mingus, and Tal Farlow. I listened to the Hampton records. Of course Milt Jackson. They are my three influences. Did you try to imitate them ? Absolutely ! I tried to study Hampton. But because I played with 4 mallets, I went soon to one record of Norvo, I think it’s called Move, with Tal farlow and Charles Mingus. It was beginful as a vibraphonist. Then I heard those beautiful records of the early Milt jackson. I would learn, and I learned from lots of jazz musicians too. Who did you admire, apart from the vibraphonists ? Later, when I was playing with Buddy Rich - we always played opposite another group - we would play with Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers, with Miles Davis, with Count Basie sometimes. Many, many groups at Birdland, this fantastic jazz club. I have to say that Miles Davis, of all the musicians and band leaders, would be the greatest for me, he was to me the most originally, band leader, of all time The way he evolved, the way he made music evolved, he brought young musicians into his level. To play with Miles was really shocking. It is said you stopped playing for a few years, retiring in Woodstock ? Yes I moved to Woodstock there, I started amplifying the vibraphone. In the sixties I was playing with Jeremy Steig and the Satyrs, I was playing with the jazz rock guys, before Bitches Brew, in 64, 65, 66. Hendricks was sitting in, and Zappa, all those guys ; they were experimenting. I didn’t drop out, I just moved to Woodstock because I started playing with folk singers. And I bought a great farm out there, a vineyard. I was beginning Hippy (Laughs). So I raised my children on the farm, I have 8 children, and I played music. That was my life ! What about the synthivibe ? I was going to use it in this tour because Michael Brecker was going to use his electric EWI, but as Mike came very ill, I didn’t take it. But I use amplification of the vibraphone, pick ups in each bar. Without that you would not hear me in this band ! (Laughs) Was was your big band, The White Elephants ? A big jam band, after we played in the studios, after records sessions. The hippies and musicians, we would get together and we would jam in the middle of the night. That’s where started Michael Brecker, and Randy Brecker, John Faddis, Steve Gadd, Tony Levine, Ronnie Cuber, Lew Soloff, I can go on and on…Sometimes 30 or 40 musicians would come. We just played on a vamp for like an hour, and singing. It was fantastic ! What about your producer job at Warner in the 70's? I produced independently, jazz records, and pop records too : Paul Simon, American Pie, Dire Straits, Airo Smith…a lot of different things. Do you see any new trend in the way of playing the vibraphone ? I don’t see any new trend in the vibraphone, no. I think there are excellent vibraphonists, but I don’t see any new thing. But for almost the last 30 years, nobody apart from king Gary Burton who is a fantastic musician. You know the kids are going to Berklee and they are just playing to one way. That’s what is accepted in all universities, just one grip and one style of playing. I think in the last 8, 9 years, the vibraphonists seem to go back and listen to Milt, and Bobby Hutcherson, guys like me, using 4 mallets, with different grips. Oh ! there are a lot of young players, Joe Locke, Stefan Hays, Steve Lou Nelson, those guys wouldn’t have been accepted years ago, as long as there is one way to play. Last night a French kid came to me and said : Why don’t you play your mallets like Gary Burton ? I answered : Because I am me ! (Laughs) And I gave Gary Burton lessons ! What is jazz for you ? Jazz is the way…even pop music…This african-american music connects pop, R-and-B, and funk, and rock : it all come from the jazz roots, from the african-american musicians. So, those beats, that groove connect all of us, and no matter where you are in the world. It’s like speaking somebody’s other language. You can just sit down and communicate through jazz. It breaks down all the barriers. That’s what it is to me. It’s a universal language. What makes the difference between jazz and the other musics ? That groove, the 6/8 cymbal beat (He sings it). The swing, which comes from that african beat (Sings again to demonstrate). 3 against 2. That’s universal now, even in rock music, funk, rap, everything, all has that inside swing. Well, it’s hard to explain it. Are you going to make a record with this group ? Maybe. But They’re all band leaders, they all make their records, so…I never know ; I’d like too