Henry GRIMES (Jazz Hot 607)

Henry Grimes' recent comeback to the music scene, after 36 years of absence, has roused interest and sensation in the public and the music press. In the last few years no clear information about the 68-year old had been available, and the news of his death had been spread. However, the important legacy of his music still remained, as was witnessed by the many recordings between the end of the '50s and the early '60s. In little more than ten years, Henry Grimes worked with major musicians belonging to different styles, affirming himself as one of the best bass players of the period. In '57 he joined Gerry Mulligan's quartet and later worked with Lennie Tristano, Tony Scott, Thelonious Monk, Benny Goodman, Lee Konitz, Sonny Rollins. Starting from the early '60s he participated in a number of historical recordings by new thing artists including: Cecil Taylor, Archie Shepp, Pharoah Sanders, Sonny Murray e Albert Ayler.
After his retirement from the music scene, that took place in '67 for personal reasons, he spent long years living through hardships in California, where he could survive thanks to temporary jobs and a social security income. Then, due to the help of a social worker who had an interest in jazz and managed to spot him, he started again to play in 2002 and resumed his musical activity. In March 2003 he performed as a guest star in New York "Vision Jazz Festival", where he met a warm reception and had the opportunity to play along with young musicians. Last November he was on tour in Italy with his long-time partner Perry Robinson on clarinet and drummer Andrew Cyrille. We met him on the occasion of the beautiful concert he held in Milan at Teatro Manzoni, where we recalled some important moments of his career and spoke about his feelings concerning his comeback to the musical scene.


Jazz Hot : Your current trio includes one of your old friends, Perry Robinson and drummer Andrew Cyrille. Why did you choose this kind of ensemble to play your music?
Henry Grimes : The trio is a type of ensemble I've often worked with in the past, plus me and Perry have had a long experience together along with Tom Price, so things just worked out naturally. The current ensemble has developed from the individual experiences of its members and their theoretical work on music and ideas.

During the set you played a lot of improvised music...
We try to make our music develop naturally, so that it creates its own direction... we do a lot of experiments with this group,and now things are starting to work.

Are you going to make a cd with this group?
Yes, we will probably make a recording but we would like to find a good production for this work.

After your comeback you have had the opportunity to play with musicians belonging to different generations. What's your opinion about the new generation of jazzmen you have met?
Oh yeah, I play with musicians from every generation , old musicians, young musicians... And I like to switch from avant-garde, to modern, and cool, beb-bop, I'm doing everything. About young musicians I met, I think they play very interesting music. It grows incredibly high, no matter what they do... avant-garde, or whatever.

Now you sometimes play with William Parker, he's one of the best emerging bassists.
Yes, he definitely plays strong.

How do you feel going back to playing music?
It's a great sensation, a huge emotion. I can't describe it precisely... Did you notice if in the audience there were people happy with what we were playing?

Yes, I think they really appreciated the concert.
That's what motivates me as a player, trying to convey emotions to the listeners while interacting with other musicians..

Now I would like to know something about your background. I know that your brother Leon played saxophone. Do you come from a family of musicians?
No, not really, my father was a cook, my mother a waitress... She used to play a little piano and my father could play the trumpet, but not too much...

The first instrument you learnt to play was violin...
Yes, I started with violin at Junior high school and then, when I went to technical high school I took up bass, because there were 5 instruments in the music course that you had to take to make passing grades. Bass was one of them and by the time I got out of high school I was working in bands as a bass player.

You also met important musicians at school: Albert Heath, Bobby Timmons, Ted Curson.
Ted Curson, Bobby Timmons and other guys are just about my same age. We went to the same school, I mean to the same two schools. You know Albert Heath has two brothers, Jimmy Heath, and Percy Heath. As I got older, I met guys like Lee Morgan, McCoy Tyner: we used to play around together, we we would jam and experiment. Some guys were younger, some guys older but there was a strong relationship between the different generations. It was a very experimental thing, it's just the way it goes in the avant-garde.

After high school you studied classical double bass at Julliard school. This period was important for you, because you developed your bow technique, which was unusual in jazz at that time...
Yes, classical studies definitely helped me! I developed bow technique also because I was often playing in pianoless bands, with no chords behind me. Nowadays this is not a special technique anymore, there are more pianoless groups, so it's an established technique.

Was your style influenced by any jazz bassists when you started learning your instrument?
Oscar Pettiford, Percy Heath, Ray Brown, Charles Mingus and lots of others like Ritchie Davis, who is younger than Ray Brown, guys like that.

One of your first important work was with Gerry Mulligan...
Yeah, in those days he had a group, that was about the first jazz gig I had, before that I used to have rhythm 'n' blues gigs.

Shortly before that experience you had also worked with Anita O' Day...
Yes,and that was very important too, because on that occasion I met Gerry Mulligan.

You played with Gerry Mulligan in a pianoless group and after that you played with Sonny Rollins, again in pianoless group. The work you did with Rollins was important for you because it allowed you to meet Don Cherry. So in that period you started being involved in free jazz...
Yes, I'd say so. After that I eventually became involved in all kinds of groups, for instance Cecil Taylor's. He is still one of my favourite musicians.

What do you remember about Albert Ayler ?
I played in some of his ensembles and it seems to me he had religious approach to music, at least as far as I was able to know him. What I can say is that he gravitated in that dimension, even though I did not really get to know him very well inside. Maybe it would have taken more time. Only when I came back to the music world I was informed about his death.

Would you like to to speak about the reason why you decided to change your life and stopped with music?
IIt was just a matter of economics basically, I had to make things work. I also had to take a step to understand what I was doing, I could see myself clashing with things all around. So I got a job in San Francisco and then in Los Angeles. However, I got in financial trouble and I even had to sell my bass. Then a social worker called Marshall Marotte, who was a fan of mine, happened to phone me, after making some investigations and things started again.

After that Willam Parker helped you..
Oh yes, I was searching for a double bass and he gave me his Olive Oil bass, so I was able to start practicing and playing after many years.

One last question: during high school you liked to draw comics, do you still do that now?
(laughs). I used to do that, maybe I'll go back to comics some day.

By Stefano Galvani

Henry Grimes Discography

Leader Coleader
1965 HENRY GRIMES "The Call" esp cd 1026 2
2003 Radio Broadcast recordings Solo Bass avaliable on cd (www.HenryGrims.com)

Sideman
1957 SHAFI ADI "Debut rarities Vol 3" Original Jazz Classic cd, Ojccd 1821 2
1957 LEE KONITZ "Tranquility" Verve LP mgu 8281
1957 TONY SCOTT & BILL EVANS "1957" Giants of Jazz cd, Cd 53202
1957 GERRY MULLIGAN QUARTET "Reunion with Chet Baker", Pacific Jazz cd cdp 7 46857 2
1957 GERRY MULLIGAN " The Gerry Mulligan Songbook ", Pacific jazz cdp 72438 33575 29
1958 BENNY GOODMAN "Newport Jazz Festival live", Columbia LP 12" c 2 38262
1958 LEE KONITZ "From Newport to Nice" Philology cd, Cd w 65 2
1959 SONNY ROLLINS "Sonny Rollins and Big Brass" Verve cd, Cd 314 557 545 2
1958 LENNIE TRISTANO "Continuity" Jazz records cd J R 6
1959 SONNY ROLLINS "St Thomas" Dragon cd 229
1960 BILLY TAYLOR "Uptown" Original Jazz classic, Cd ojc 1901 2
1961 ROLF KOHN "Sounds of Jazz" Fresh Sound cd 326
1960 MOSE ALLISON "I love the life I live" Columbia Legacy cd
1961 CECIL TAYLOR "Mixed" grp Impulse cd 270
1962 PERRY ROBINSON "Funk Dumpling" Savoy cd sv 0255
1963 CHARLES MINGUS "In Concert" Jazzman cd IM 11741
1962 ROY HAYNES "Out of the Afternoon" grp Impulse grd 180
1962 MC COY TYNER "Reaching Fourth" grp Impulse cd impd 255
1962 SONNY ROLLINS "Our Man in Jazz" rca jazz 74321192562
1963 SONNY ROLLINS "Quartet live in Paris 1963" Magnetic, Cd 101
1963 STEVE LACY "School Days" Hat Art cd 587
1964 SONNY ROLLINS "Sonny meets Hawk" rca jazz 74321221082
1964 ALBERT AYLER "Goin' Home" Black Lion cd, BLCD 760197
1965 ARCHIE SHEPP "On this Night" grp Impulse grd 125
1965 ALBERT AYLER "Spirit Rejoice" lp esp 1020
1965 FRANK WRIGHT "Frank Wright trio" cd esp 1020
1965 SUNNY MURRAY "Sunny Time Now" cd diw 355
1965 BURTON GREENE "Burton Green Quartet esp cd 1024 2
1965 DON CHERRY "Complete Communion" Blue Note, cd 7243 5 22673 23
1966 CHARLES TAYLER "Charles tayler ensemble" esp, Cd 1029 2
1966 CECIL TAYLOR Unit Structures Blue Note cd, cdp 7 844237 2
1966 DON CHERRY "Symphony for Improvisers" Blue Note , cdp 7 84260 2
1966 CECILTAYLOR "Conquistador" BlueNote cd cdp 7 842602
1966 DON CHERRY "Where is Brooklin ?" Blue Note LP, bst 84311, Mosaic cd "The Complete Blue Note Recordings of Don Cherry"
1966 PHAROAH SANDERS "Tahuid" Grp Impulse cd grd
1966 KARL BERGER "From Now On" esp lp 1041
1966 ALBERT AYLER "Live in Greenwich Village The complete Impulse Recordings", grp Impulse IMP 22732

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Cecil McBEE

Cecil McBee is a fairly particular bassist, from his technical conceptions as much for his accompaniment as for his solos. His original harminic approach, and his open mind, allow him to face any musical situation, which perhaps explain the fact that he is asked by the most creative and original musicians such as Grachan Moncur III, Jackie McLean, Wayne, Shorter, Freddy Hubard, miles Davis, Charles Lloyd, Yusef Lateef, Bobby Hutcherson, Pharoah Sanders, Charles Tolliver, Sam Rivers, Michael White, Woody Shaw, Dollar Brand, Chico Freeman, his friend Kirk Lightsey, Lester Bowie, Anthony Braxton, etc. He made a marvellous performance at the Sax Summit concert in Padoue Festival 2003. As it was impossible for us to spare some time in Padoue, it’s at Venice airport, waiting for our planes, that Cecil McBee accepted, very kindly and courteously, to answer to some questions.


Jazz Hot : Can you tell me where and when you were born ?
Cecil McBee : I was born on the 19th of may, 1935, in Tulsa, Oklahoma, the same birth state as Oscar Pettiford, Charlie Christian, Chet Baker, Don Cherry, Ernie Royal, Earl Bostic, Jimmy Rushing, etc. etc.

How did you come to play the bass ?
It’s a very, very long story. Initially I was a clarinettist since I played in the school band, my middle school band, and during my early stages I ended up being choosen as the best instrumentalist. And subsequently when I arrived, oh this is a long story short, when I arrived at my senior school years I was now very popular as a clarinettist in the band, you know, small school, small talent. It was only discovered by the conductor of the band that I couldn’t read music, so I was playing music those three years without really reading the music. I was hearing the music and playing it perfectly. So that person was responsible for my career today, for he immediately suggested and supported me, in a way, as a kid, to take private music lessons. So then later on I of course improved in my performance, and about three years later I discovered the string bass, by accident. In the school instrument room, where you store the instruments away after practice, I discovered a bass and began trying to play at because previously I had heard a song of a band in a juke-box in a place where I used to hang out, and have ice-cream, and sodas, and watch the girls, and there was this tune, my first jazz record, by Dizzy Gillespie, it was “ Swing Low, Sweet Cadillac ”. And I heard that ! To this day I don’t know who the bass player was, but I heard the bass and I said : Oh ! my god ! It was going just inside. I had never thought one could play like that. So when I picked the bass up in school I tried to play like that.. I was attracted to it. So I learned later that there were friends in the school who would like to try to play music. So we would gather in the school and try to play some tunes. So the word got out into the community that there was a new bass player in town, I was only 17 years of age. And it turned out I was the only bass player in town. So they came and got me and put me in the club.

You managed to learn by yourself, and then you went to the university ?
Yes.But, in my first year at the jazz-club my first band was under the leadership of Red Prisappy (Ortho non garantie), a tenor saxophone player, who was very famous at a time, and who was travelling through from New-York, and the bass player didn’t show up, so he hired me for the gig, it was really a mess because I knew nothing about jazz, I knew nothing about tunes, no harmony, no theory, but apparently I had a good ear, because I listened and I played fairly good. I stayed at that club for one year before I went to the university. When I arrived at that university in Ohio I knew all my tunes, I was now a developping bass player. Then I began to hear about Charlie Parker and Chet Baker, Art Pepper, Count Basie, Duke Ellington ; all these names were new to me. And so with my college friends we used to play these tunes, and also I played gigs, so that’s how I started my career.

And then you went to the army for your military service?
Yes, I went to the army for two years where I refused to carry a weapon in the military, so they were kind enough to let me return to my clarinet and play in the band, where I met Kirk Lightsey. I was in the military maybe a half a year before he was there. When he entered the band he sat right next to me, first time. He pulled out his clarinet, he sounded pretty good. He was a piano player, but so he could escape from the weapons. We engaged conversation, he learnt I was a bass player, I learnt he was a pianist, we had a good feeling, so we developped a friendship. We would perform on the week-end when we could go to town in Louisville, Kentucky, where there were jazz-clubs. We practised on the stage, because by that time I knew I wanted to go to New-York. So in the meantime, Kirk was from Detroit, and he was in touch with everybody, he was part of the upbringing of the Jones Brothers, he knew people like Ron Carter, Barry Harris, Paul Chambers, he knew everybody, so he put them in touch with me. When I left the military I went back to college and finished my last year. Because the military had a draft at the time and they took me out of college. So I got my music degree, and in the meantime Kirk Lightsey had arranged that I would arrive in Detroit, and I would stay at his mother’s house. That was in 62. So his mother took me like a son, and we played gigs all over the city.

Did you have a sextet with Paul Winter there ?
No, Paul Winter took me out of Detroit, he brought me to New York, early 64.

So that was the beginning of a brilliant career ?
Yap ! My first recording in New York was with Dennis Ikeman, and Buddy Waits, under the production of the great John Hammond, who immediately chose me as his great bass player, which I felt very honored. Then I joined Jackie McLean with John Hicks, Jack DeJohnette, Charles Oliver, Bobby Hutcherson, people like that.

Who were your masters for the bass at the beginning?
Well, initially my first one to appreciate on the bass was Percy Heath, because as a young man at the time not knowing much about what jazz hamony was about, and with a great lack of experiences almost, I heard him stronger and more close to my heart because I heard him when he came out in all the records with Miles Davis. And then after that it was all Paul Chambers. He is just like the guard of all bass players. But then , before, I made a step backwards, before I arrived in New York, or when I was in Detroit, before I Joined Paul Winter, I heard Scott LaFaro for the first time, so he was one of my heroes. With his advanced harmonics, harmonic techniques on the instrument, also the technique of the bow. He was researching all the time. But unfortunately he wasn’t with us too long, he was dead by the time I got to New York.
And with Paul Winter, getting to New York, I heard on the radio Richard Davis, I was so impressed that I wanted to go back to Detroit. That were my greatest heroes, Paul Chambers, Scott LaFaro and Richard Davis, the ones who really inspired me more. But later on, on the instrument, John Coltrane especially inspired me.

What’s your conception of the role of the bass in the rythm section ?
In the old days the role of the bass was to keep time, and make sure that all the harmonies were in a fact creatively out front, based on the tone selected that you chose, a more supportive role . But right now I think in combination with this supportive aspect of the instrument, well I say, in a more profound, more deeper supportive, respective on the instrument, once it’s been extremely variable, one is very capable of supporting all voices, all statements that are made by the music that’s around. For instance this group that I am performing with now, Dave Liebman, Michael Brecker, Joe Lovano, each has this own distinct voice, and so if I am fairly well known on the instrument throughout the world with what I do at a certain level of appreciation is that I am extremely flexible, I can send a message to each individual that I am with, with regards of the concept of mere ability to create high level satisfactory on the instrument, and when that is percible, is concluded, then when the other starts, there’s a whole different field that I bring with their support because I think I understand what they need and what they like and enjoy. I suppose my support will bring them to the next level, hopefully. So I am extremely variable on the instrument. I think I feel that most instrumentists, all bassists today, especially in jazz, should develop harmonically and technically so they could be more available to what is needed from them. As we were discussing the other night, a lot of instrumentists, bassists, today seem to operate in a sort of a one or two areas of creativity, and I am one of the few who can play with anybody.

You are very impressive when you use the bow. What a wonderful sound ! Did you especially work on it ? Because sometimes, with certain bassists, it’s the sound of a cat miewing.
Maybe the cat is really miewing, inside the bass (laughs). Well, I have…well…How do you ask for that question…as a performer I am always reaching as deep inside as possible to release experiences, energies, that will manifest themselves in a form of music given a certain quality of relief and also hopefully bringing joy and happiness. And so with my bow, in that perspective, the energy that I bring to bear on the bow what I am placing on the strings, it’s not just to place the bow on the string, it’s coming from a far, far, far deeper place inside of me, so when I choose to play at it, it’s very, very special, as last night. It’s extremely rare for me that I chose the bow to play at that time because I had hesitated the last four, five nights, insensively needing and wanting to play, but the sound wasn’t right, the feeling wasn’t exactly the way I would, but last night it was there, so I picked up the bow, and there it was. And so it’s amazing that you ask me that , that you make such superlative status about that, because I felt that inside about it. Why, because in my apartment in New York just at the last half year, on an occasion, my musical nature told me : Why don’t you practise your bow ! Your fingers, you’ve done that so much. So I played a little bit and I didn’t feel satisfied because of the sound. So last night when I kept putting the bow out, and when I finished my solo, the first stop was, why don’t you practise that thing that you didn’t do, which could have come across better, but for you to say that I played good, that’s satisfactory. So when I get home I’m gonna just practise, because a lot of people are telling me that too.

I’ve noticed you don’t use the vibrato ?
That’s why I said I didn’t complete because I love vibrato, you see, but I’ve never studied the bow with a teacher, classically

Maybe that’s why you have your own sound ?
Perhaps so. One of the unique aspects of detail on the string bass is being able to tune yourself while you’re playing, but that is no directions on the finger board, you have to find the note yourself, and a lot of a time, I say for the most part, 82 % of the time, the notes that you play are usually missed, but by rolling your finger forward or backward you can raise the tone or lower it. So I’m a really expert at cleaning the tone and purifying as I go along, I do that very well with my pizzicato, but I’m not too careful with the bow, I’m not inside about that, that’s what I meant by not giving as much tone coming out as much as I wanted to. So now that I’ve talked to you, I plan to return home and just practise and practise. Now I understand that I need to do that.

But in your own way, not in a classical way !
Oh yes ! But let me tell you, this is very important. About eleven years ago Major Holley, the bassist that died about ten ou twelve years ago, during the same period right after I talked to him, we happened to be on the same bus headed for the airport at Dun Haig, right after performing with a good group called The Leaders, and I was thinking about the bow. I said : Wow, there’s the man that knows a lot about the bow, because he plays with the bow a lot. And he was sitting right across the isle from me, so I said : Mister Holley pardon me, may I ask you a question ? He says (imitating) : Yes boy, what do you want ? I said : Can you tell me how I would grow about practising the bow ? Because you’re amazing. I’ll tell you boy : Just pick the god damn thing and play it. So I thought about that. I said : it’s so far from the classical technique, that is another perception. (He sings the classical technique.) But developping a reasonable technique by drawing the bow, and making experiences of the pressures and weights. You just add that particular technique that you already know on your left hand, because it’s uniquely and individually new. So that’s what I’ve done ! I just practise a jazz technique.

And what is jazz for you ?
Jazz basically is an open door for me to realize to the world at large who I really am through the energetic forces of music that I feel very capable of expressing. Initially what I mean by that is as a young man coming along, especially during the period that I discovered the clarinet, and the bass, etc, etc, I was a very, very shy individual. As a matter of fact if I liked a girl, at the time, when I started gaining maturity, I would be so crushed, I couldn’t say anything to her. If I did, I was so much in love that I was boring, I was so crushed by this person, and I’m still that way today but I have managed to just put it into a fairly reasonable comportment, containment, and control. But for jazz music, that painful shyness is giving me the opportunity to speak out loud those things I’m about in a most profoundest sense. So people that hear that can really understand how I am connected to the universe at large around it. I am concerned about it. Nothing that goes by, especially in nature, or what people do, the trouble, or whatever, is indifferent in a world that I don’t appreciate. I love nature, I love everything about creativity and many perception of various energies that take these forms of colour, and good wine, and beautiful women. So I’m able to express all that through my music. That’s jazz for me !

Serge Baudot