Jazz Hot “en V.O.”

By Jean Szlamowicz

Jazz Hot : What kind of family did you have as you were growing up?
Doug Lawrence : I had a musical family. His father Tilden was a multi-woodwind player who worked with Jack Teagarden among others. Two older brothers were also professional musicians. Fred on trombone worked with Woody Herman, Frank Sinatra and others and Tilden Jr. on trumpet worked with Elvis Presley, Edgar Winter, Paul Anka and others. Both of my sisters also played piano and woodwinds but did not play professionally. My mother was a child prodigy tap dancer in Louisiana before marrying my father at the age of 20 and raising 6 children. She also played piano around the house. There was always jazz and classical music around the house. It was a very happy atmosphere for a child to grow up in. The family moved to New Mexico when I was 8 years old. I stayed in New Mexico until I was 17 years old. I then left on a full music scholarship to the famous big band jazz school - North Texas State University.

What was your education?
My father was my only private instuctor. I started on clarinet playing only classical music at the age of 8. At the age of 13, I began playing alto saxophone and soon started improvising under my father’s guidance. I joined my father’s band at the age of 15 playing alto. The band worked several times a week playing dances at country clubs and the local officer’s club in Albuquerque, New Mexico. This was invaluable experience, because I learned to play many standards under the watchful eyes of older musicians who had played with Lionel Hampton, Benny Goodman and others.
In high school I won «best soloist» award at the NAJE (now IAJE) conference in Amarillo, Texas. With this award came a full scholarship to North Texas State University (NTSU). I went to NTSU at the age of 17 and only stayed one semester before going on the road with a band out of Dallas, Texas. I ended up in Las Vegas, Nevada for 18 months before going to New York City where I would live for the next 20 years. In New York, I quickly became one of the most «in demand» saxophonists on the NYC jazz scene. My mentors early on were Buck Clayton, Grover Mitchell, Jerry Dodgion, Frank Wess and Mel Lewis. These people were very influential in making me known throughout the New York jazz scene and giving me both musical and personal guidance.

What is your music like?
My Music is straight ahead with emphasis on melody. Straight-ahead bebop and swing (playing changes) I believe is still the hardest music to play. Just listen to the younger artists coming up playing a standard compared to the artists of yesteryear. I believe it will always be the most difficult form of jazz - to play a song with changes, and be able to swing with a great tone, and «tell a story». Critics in some circles fail to realize this, I believe, because they are always trying to find something «new». Do you discount Van Gogh because it is art that isn’t new? I don’t think so. Do you discount the London Philharmonic for playing Stravinsky or Mozart? I think not! Do you discount the Basie Band because it is playing arrangements by Thad Jones that aren’t new? Ask the sold-out audiences we play to all over the world if they dismiss the Basie Band because we are playing Thad Jones! I think they will tell you they love the charts we play, because we play them differently every night. The solos are different and the spirit is different every night. The challenge in straight ahead jazz is to create something different every night. It is one of the hardest things to do in music.
My career is like a dream come true. I always wanted to play 1st tenor in Count Basie’s Band, and here I am doing it. Since I was a kid, I dreamed of being one of the long line of Basie tenormen that included, among others, some of the greatest to ever play - Lester Young, Hershel Evans, Buddy Tate, Don Byas, Lucky Thompson, Wardell Gray, Frank Foster, Frank Wess, Eddie «Lockjaw» Davis, Billy Mitchell, Sal Nistico, Jimmy Forrest and Kenny Hing.

What’s your approach to improvising?
Improvisation must be spontaneous, not pre-planned or learned. You play what you hear and feel! It’s not something that can be learned out of books or in classrooms. You learn it on the bandstand. You learn it by trying to make a living night in and night out. You would be surprised how proficient you can get at something if your stomach is hurting because you haven’t eaten in days, or you have no money for rent. It becomes a matter of survival! With very few exceptions, jazz is an art form that takes years and even a lifetime to become accomplished at. It is different from other types of music simply because you are constantly creating, trying to play something different and better than you played the night before. It’s always a challenge to create something new in your solos. That’s what keeps the music fresh and new, night in and night out. It is also extremely demanding and difficult to accomplish.

Do you view jazz as an African-American art form?
I believe jazz is essentially an African-American art form (that is, it began in New Orleans with mostly black New Orleans musicians), but not exclusively an African-American art form. If it was, then me and the hundreds of other non-African American jazz musicians would not be considered jazz musicians (Zoot Sims, Chet Baker, Pepper Adams, Joe Lovano, etc). I think it is not only a mistake, but racist to say only African-Americans can play jazz. I have spent the majority of my career playing with «black» artists, from Buck Clayton to Aretha Franklin and I have always been hired because of the way I play, not the way I look. There have been rare occasions when I was mistaken for a «black» musician over the phone (my southern/NYC accent?) or over the radio (my playing?). When I actually showed up for the gig they were surprised to see I was white. This just reinforces my believe that what comes out of your horn is what counts, not what color you are. I have always been able to fit in with white bands (like Benny Goodman) and black bands (like Count Basie) with little to no problems at all.

How do you view the recent evolution of jazz?
Jazz has generally not really changed, in my opinion, for the better in the last 20 to 30 years. I think there have been some changes such as fusion or acid jazz that deserve minor recognition, but I still believe today that jazz made during the swing era, bebop era and post-bebop era (1930-1965) is the best jazz and cannot be improved upon, only played at it’s best by great musicians who take this art and transform it in performance with their own style. Musicians that take the music from these eras and make it there own, as far as playing in that particular style, (like Scott Hamilton, Frank Wess, Nicholas Payton, Jackie McClean, Phil Woods, Harry Allen, Tardo Hammer, Eric Alexander, Kenny Washington, Peter Bernstein to mention a few) are still creating great «new» jazz when they perform. It is «new», simply by the fact that they are translating the vocabulary of mainstream jazz in their own style.

How do you view the jazz business today?
Media nowadays is about selling young and younger artists. The record companies are always looking for the «new» young face. It is too bad that the best jazz musicians are mostly overlooked, because they don’t fit the «young» look. This is an art form that takes time to develop. Like Opera singers. You don’t really hit your prime until your 40’s. Unfortunately, the young artists the record companies turn into stars have never paid their dues, and you can hear it in their music! Give me a middle aged cat that can tell a story anytime!

How easy is it to be a jazz musician?
It is extremely hard to be a jazz musician. Especially if you are from a poor family and have no financial help of any kind. You have to play for your living. It separates the «men from the boys» so to speak. I have had a great career, but it has also been very hard financially, at times. I have also been lucky. I am a jazz musician because I have been doing it for 33 years. I started as a kid with my dad’s band. He passed the torch to me. I didn’t feel then, nor do I feel now that I really had or have a choice. The phone keeps ringing and I keep taking the gigs. It’s what I do. I know nothing else!

Any plans for the future?
My plans are to get home to my beautiful wife and hang out around the house. We have been on a world tour for over a year now with the Basie Band and it is getting very exhausting. I need some time off. Next year I plan to tour more with the Basie band and also by myself as a solo act. Tentatively I have a tour in Sweden in the works with one of the top Swedish tenor saxophonist and also a possible two tenor recording with Johnny Griffin, who saw me play in France this past summer.


Doug LAWRENCE (Jazz Hot 619) By Jean Szlamowicz Jazz Hot : What kind of family did you have as you were growing up? Doug Lawrence : I had a musical family. His father Tilden was a multi-woodwind player who worked with Jack Teagarden among others. Two older brothers were also professional musicians. Fred on trombone worked with Woody Herman, Frank Sinatra and others and Tilden Jr. on trumpet worked with Elvis Presley, Edgar Winter, Paul Anka and others. Both of my sisters also played piano and woodwinds but did not play professionally. My mother was a child prodigy tap dancer in Louisiana before marrying my father at the age of 20 and raising 6 children. She also played piano around the house. There was always jazz and classical music around the house. It was a very happy atmosphere for a child to grow up in. The family moved to New Mexico when I was 8 years old. I stayed in New Mexico until I was 17 years old. I then left on a full music scholarship to the famous big band jazz school - North Texas State University. What was your education? My father was my only private instuctor. I started on clarinet playing only classical music at the age of 8. At the age of 13, I began playing alto saxophone and soon started improvising under my father’s guidance. I joined my father’s band at the age of 15 playing alto. The band worked several times a week playing dances at country clubs and the local officer’s club in Albuquerque, New Mexico. This was invaluable experience, because I learned to play many standards under the watchful eyes of older musicians who had played with Lionel Hampton, Benny Goodman and others. In high school I won «best soloist» award at the NAJE (now IAJE) conference in Amarillo, Texas. With this award came a full scholarship to North Texas State University (NTSU). I went to NTSU at the age of 17 and only stayed one semester before going on the road with a band out of Dallas, Texas. I ended up in Las Vegas, Nevada for 18 months before going to New York City where I would live for the next 20 years. In New York, I quickly became one of the most «in demand» saxophonists on the NYC jazz scene. My mentors early on were Buck Clayton, Grover Mitchell, Jerry Dodgion, Frank Wess and Mel Lewis. These people were very influential in making me known throughout the New York jazz scene and giving me both musical and personal guidance. What is your music like? My Music is straight ahead with emphasis on melody. Straight-ahead bebop and swing (playing changes) I believe is still the hardest music to play. Just listen to the younger artists coming up playing a standard compared to the artists of yesteryear. I believe it will always be the most difficult form of jazz - to play a song with changes, and be able to swing with a great tone, and «tell a story». Critics in some circles fail to realize this, I believe, because they are always trying to find something «new». Do you discount Van Gogh because it is art that isn’t new? I don’t think so. Do you discount the London Philharmonic for playing Stravinsky or Mozart? I think not! Do you discount the Basie Band because it is playing arrangements by Thad Jones that aren’t new? Ask the sold-out audiences we play to all over the world if they dismiss the Basie Band because we are playing Thad Jones! I think they will tell you they love the charts we play, because we play them differently every night. The solos are different and the spirit is different every night. The challenge in straight ahead jazz is to create something different every night. It is one of the hardest things to do in music. My career is like a dream come true. I always wanted to play 1st tenor in Count Basie’s Band, and here I am doing it. Since I was a kid, I dreamed of being one of the long line of Basie tenormen that included, among others, some of the greatest to ever play - Lester Young, Hershel Evans, Buddy Tate, Don Byas, Lucky Thompson, Wardell Gray, Frank Foster, Frank Wess, Eddie «Lockjaw» Davis, Billy Mitchell, Sal Nistico, Jimmy Forrest and Kenny Hing. What’s your approach to improvising? Improvisation must be spontaneous, not pre-planned or learned. You play what you hear and feel! It’s not something that can be learned out of books or in classrooms. You learn it on the bandstand. You learn it by trying to make a living night in and night out. You would be surprised how proficient you can get at something if your stomach is hurting because you haven’t eaten in days, or you have no money for rent. It becomes a matter of survival! With very few exceptions, jazz is an art form that takes years and even a lifetime to become accomplished at. It is different from other types of music simply because you are constantly creating, trying to play something different and better than you played the night before. It’s always a challenge to create something new in your solos. That’s what keeps the music fresh and new, night in and night out. It is also extremely demanding and difficult to accomplish. Do you view jazz as an African-American art form? I believe jazz is essentially an African-American art form (that is, it began in New Orleans with mostly black New Orleans musicians), but not exclusively an African-American art form. If it was, then me and the hundreds of other non-African American jazz musicians would not be considered jazz musicians (Zoot Sims, Chet Baker, Pepper Adams, Joe Lovano, etc). I think it is not only a mistake, but racist to say only African-Americans can play jazz. I have spent the majority of my career playing with «black» artists, from Buck Clayton to Aretha Franklin and I have always been hired because of the way I play, not the way I look. There have been rare occasions when I was mistaken for a «black» musician over the phone (my southern/NYC accent?) or over the radio (my playing?). When I actually showed up for the gig they were surprised to see I was white. This just reinforces my believe that what comes out of your horn is what counts, not what color you are. I have always been able to fit in with white bands (like Benny Goodman) and black bands (like Count Basie) with little to no problems at all. How do you view the recent evolution of jazz? Jazz has generally not really changed, in my opinion, for the better in the last 20 to 30 years. I think there have been some changes such as fusion or acid jazz that deserve minor recognition, but I still believe today that jazz made during the swing era, bebop era and post-bebop era (1930-1965) is the best jazz and cannot be improved upon, only played at it’s best by great musicians who take this art and transform it in performance with their own style. Musicians that take the music from these eras and make it there own, as far as playing in that particular style, (like Scott Hamilton, Frank Wess, Nicholas Payton, Jackie McClean, Phil Woods, Harry Allen, Tardo Hammer, Eric Alexander, Kenny Washington, Peter Bernstein to mention a few) are still creating great «new» jazz when they perform. It is «new», simply by the fact that they are translating the vocabulary of mainstream jazz in their own style. How do you view the jazz business today? Media nowadays is about selling young and younger artists. The record companies are always looking for the «new» young face. It is too bad that the best jazz musicians are mostly overlooked, because they don’t fit the «young» look. This is an art form that takes time to develop. Like Opera singers. You don’t really hit your prime until your 40’s. Unfortunately, the young artists the record companies turn into stars have never paid their dues, and you can hear it in their music! Give me a middle aged cat that can tell a story anytime! How easy is it to be a jazz musician? It is extremely hard to be a jazz musician. Especially if you are from a poor family and have no financial help of any kind. You have to play for your living. It separates the «men from the boys» so to speak. I have had a great career, but it has also been very hard financially, at times. I have also been lucky. I am a jazz musician because I have been doing it for 33 years. I started as a kid with my dad’s band. He passed the torch to me. I didn’t feel then, nor do I feel now that I really had or have a choice. The phone keeps ringing and I keep taking the gigs. It’s what I do. I know nothing else! Any plans for the future? My plans are to get home to my beautiful wife and hang out around the house. We have been on a world tour for over a year now with the Basie Band and it is getting very exhausting. I need some time off. Next year I plan to tour more with the Basie band and also by myself as a solo act. Tentatively I have a tour in Sweden in the works with one of the top Swedish tenor saxophonist and also a possible two tenor recording with Johnny Griffin, who saw me play in France this past summer.