Kenny Garrett, born in Detroit, Michigan, on the 9th of october 1960, is part of those young musicians for whom jazz seems to be a too narrow area. He says he only plays music. Nevertheless he obviously knows what jazz is, just by seeing who he played with : at the age of 18 with The Duke Ellington Orchestra of Mercer Ellington, and with Cootie Williams, George Coleman, Mel Lewis, Frank Foster, Woody Shaw, Mulgrew Miller, Freddie Hubbard, Art Blakey, Geri Allen, Tom Harrell, Charnett Moffett, Dannie Richmond et Miles Davis, all of them unquestionable jazzmen. But he also played with Sting, Peter Garbriel and a Symphonic Orchestra. Kenny Garrett is able to be a great jazzman, but sometimes he gives way too willingly to a kind of easy way to attract the audience. But he is a concious musician, knowing what his value is, where he’s going to, and assuming what he does. In Estoril he gave a very beautiful concert with young musicians who were in real top form. The man is very kind, open minded, and the interview taking place at one o’clock in the morning, after the concert, was a real pleasure.
Jazz Hot : How and why did you choose the saxophone ?
Kenny Garrett : The saxophone chose me. My father played tenor saxophone, and I loved its case, the shape of the case, it wasn’t so much what he played. But I listened when he practised and I became curious about the instrument. And he bought me my first saxophone.
Was it an alto ?
Actually it was a plastic saxophone, a toy saxophone. And my father came home one day with an alto saxophone. Alto is the one that I play, I think it’s my voice.
Did your father teach you, or did you go to a school ?
He taught me a few things and then he sent me to a school where i learnt how to play the saxophone, the flute and the clarinet.
Did you go to a great school like Berklee for instance?
No, I just had a good teacher, Bill Wiggins. The school I went to didn’t have a music programme, Bill actually created it. He knew my father and he wanted me to play in the band. We didn’t have a concert band or something like that. And he wanted me to play in the band because they hadn’t enough saxophone players.
Who did you admire at the beginning ?
My first inspirations were Hank Crawford, Grover Washington, and Cannonball Adderley, but it was commercial Cannonball Adderley, and commercial Washington, something I could relate to.
Weren’t you interested by Jackie McLean ?
Not at that time. He came later. At the beginning it was just music that I could understand.
Did you try to imitate him ?
I never tried to imitate anyone, I used to play with the records from people that I liked, but without trying to imitate them.
When did you learn how to play the piano ?
The piano has always been there. That was when I was in high school, I wanted to play those kind of chords and I couldn’t on the saxophone. And I heard that musicians like Dizzy Gillespie played the piano, and Freddie Hubbard, and so on… so I started to play it more.
And I suppose it helps to write music ?
Oh yes I definitely use it to compose, but recently I did a solo piano concert.
Will you do a record ?
Well, lot of people are encouraging me. Some pianos players tell me I am a piano player, but for a beginning I just want to be calm. Maybe I should take lessons, because I haven’t studied the piano in a traditional sense.
In your own way, that’s the best maybe, to have one’s own voice. Is wrting music very important for you now ?
It has always been important for me to create. To me it’s an interesting thing about to write music, because when the inspiration comes you can create. Sometimes you might hear something on television and you wonder what makes feel you that way.So I go to the keyboard and see what it is. I conjure up some sounds. It’s amazing to be able to write what you’re thinking. It was always to me a vehicle to use to create a sound to Kenny Garrett. Because I thought that John Coltrane had his own music, Duke Ellington had his own music, so did Miles Davis, etc.. So I wanted my own music, I wanted to create some tunes with my sound.
Is the piano complementary to your saxophone playing ?
Well, sometimes when you write music you…Sometimes I write music with the saxophone. In fact I just write music, and I can play it either on the saxophone or on the piano. Sometimes I might hear for the piano, sometimes I might hear for the saxophone.
What difference do you make between writing and improvising ?
Writing is a vehicle for me to improvise on. It’s like a canvas. You have some colours, you like and choose specific colours, it’s the same with sounds. You just play of it. Sometimes it’s obvious there is a solo wihich has nothing to do with any improvisation with this music. And I do the same thing. That’s different !
What’s your conception of jazz ?
For me it’s just all music. You know some people say jazz is this, or that, and you have to stand to the tradition. I’ve always borrowed from different sources, that’s what I do. I play what I call jazz, it’s a mix of everything, it’s a mix of folk, it’s a mix of hip hop, it’s just music. I use tunes, i use classical music, you use everything. Music is music, I don’t want to put any kind of word.
But the jazz music is different from the other musics ?
It’s different, but it borrows from other musics. If you take an ingredient, if you take flour and use sugar, next time you take flour but you don’t use the regular sugar, you use mild sugar, you have still the same result, the foundation is still that.
Isn’t there anything specific to jazz ?
I think all genders have something specific, but when I look at it, what I call music, I don’t look at it as separate, I look at it as music. A C sound is a C sound, it can be in jazz, or in classical music, or in funk, it’s still a C sound. I would like to find differences but when I play music I just play music. Jazz is more challenging. But pop music is also music, that’s good. You like the beat, you like the sound, is it jazz ? No, it doesn’t sound jazz. Is it challenging to me, I guess no, but it’s still music. What does it do to me, what does it make me feel ? That’s how I look at it, because lot of people ask me that you know. You play a lot of musics, you play different styles, you don’t play jazz. No, I just play music. That’s what I played with Miles Davis, that’s what I played with Sting. That was music.That’s why I played with the Classical New Jersey Symphony. I played classical music because it was a challenge, it was not because it was jazz, it was because it’s music.
What about that notion of swing ?
It all depends of the point where you’re at. For example right now if I heard some swing, I would probably like the feeling of swing. I wouldn’t like to categorize, I just want to say music, because I borrow from so many different sources.
I’ve read somewhere that you have learnt Japanese ?
That’s right.
Was it an interest for Japan, or does it bear a relation to the music of that country ?
I think in the beginning If I did play music it’s by chance, because I’ve always wanted to be a linguist, I love languages because it’s the best way to understand the people, and I think it was really a kind of a way of getting back to that. I think I might have been born in Europe because someone told me that Americans are lazy, I said woah ! Americans are lazy, but I’m not lazy, so I decided to learn Japanese and it was really just like a challenge. And then recently I’ve been learning Korean, and learning French. When I travel I like to learn languages, it’s just communication. It opens up a line in communication, and now we speak in English. As you speak English I haven’t to struggle my French. I think it helps me just to be a better person. Even if it isn’t fluent. My Japanese of course is better than my French. My career goes in different countries. The last time I was in France I could speak more. We are all different but we are the same, no matter if you speak French, Japanese or Portuguese, we have different cultures but we are the same. It’s similar with the music. We are all the same.
Have you been interested in the Japanese music ?
When I started to learn the language I began to be interested in the music, I said : well it’s different but I like it, and I started to reharmonize different things. It’s the same with Korean and French musics, I just want melodies, and whatever it is, it interests me if they are good melodies.
Did you find something in the Japanese music that might influence your music ?
I found something that helped me to make my music better.
Why and how ?
Because the melodies by themselves are so strong. Lot of the tunes that I chose are Asian melodies. I said : I love this melody but the harmony doesn’t put, but the melody is nice..
The Japanese harmony is different ? I think they use 5 tones ?
Yes it’s five tones, but it doesn’t mean that you can’t change the harmony. With an Asian melody I change the harmony. But the melody that I love is a strong melody and when I write I like to have strong notes.
Those experiments with Sting and others…How did you happen to do that ?
I thought it was a challenge to me because a lot of times when I play music it’s usually by a challenge. I like to challenge myself. When I did some music with The New Jersey Symphony, that was a challenge, that is not what I do every day but that challenges me to raise my artistic level. That’s why I try to do that. Even with rock-and-roll, it’s a challenge to try to see how I can put my voice in that music, and to improvise, not just to understand that music. That’s me the challenge, it’s not something I do every day but I’m tempted to do that.
Is it like an experiment.
In some ways, yes. I think it’s an experiment but at the same time you’re raising yourself to another level. Otherwise you stay in your comfort, I want to do something different. And I try to do something that helps me to keep to grow, as a human and as a musician.
How did you find your own voice ? Was it volontarily, or did it happen like that ?
I think it was something that I have always thought about because my father was always asking when I listened to the radio : Who is this performer. I said I don’t know, and he said everybody has a voice. And I think unconsciously I was followed by it. And one day I actually realized that I had my own sound. I didn’t think about it consciously but that was something I wanted to have. It is a combination taken from the musicians that I love, and one day I realized : woah ! that’s my sound. Just practising.
You mean it just came by practising ?
Yes, definitely. I don’t think there was anything that I did to make it happen. It came from musical experiences.
Was it the same with the phrasing ?
For the phrasing it is kind of the same. I remember when I learnt Japanese, it changed the way I was phrasing on my saxophone, it’s just different rythms. (He makes them with his tongue). I said woah ! this is interesting. To me it means sounds.
Do you think it’s still possible nowadays for a young saxophone player to find his own sound ?
It will be a lot of work, but he can ever find it. Because I think everybody has that, it’s just that some people happen to assume it, some people have to go a lifetime to understand the music they are doing, I think it just really depends, some people get it, some people don’t. For me fortunately I was able to hear the sound, to cope it and to memorize it.
And to find new trends in jazz ?
I think people are searching for that, but for me I think it just happens. I don’t think some people will specifically go out to create something different. Everyone is individual, I don’t want to sound like that person, I want to make my own music. I think now the way the business is set up it’s difficult for people to create, it can be done, but for me I was blessed to have a great experience. Young people coming out to day, they don’t have a Miles Davis, or a Woody Shaw, or a Freddie Hubbard, they don’t have the same experience, so that makes a lot differences.
Does it look like we are going to a sort of repertory jazz?
For me the situation is different from those who play repertoire as they do in classical music, because I payed with the Duke Ellington Orchestra, so I don’t need to do that, I played the music with Charles Mingus, so I don’t need to do that, I played with Freddie Hubbard, so I don’t need to do a concert record playing Freddie Hubbard, I played with Miles Davis, so I don’t need to do music of Miles Davis, so it’s a lot different. I shared the bandstand with Cootie Williams. So I had a great experiment and I just want to do my music.
What marvellous experiences, and you are so young !
I wanted to play with the fathers of music, I wanted to learn from the fathers of music, it was important for me. Not so much to have a gig, but to gig up with the guys who had played and lived that music. Playing with Miles Davis I’m getting the history from John Coltrane, from Charlie Parker, Cannonball Adderly, Sonny Rollins, all those great creators, that’s important to me to stay in the bandstand and hear these persons play. Of course we have the records but it’s not the same.
How was it to play in The Ellington Band with Mercer Ellington as a leader ?
It was great ! I started with big bands, so of course that’s something that helped me to develop. That taught me how to be a musician. Now I respect my part, I respect your part, it’s a great experience. I think, maybe it’s just like to learn to play like Johnny Hodges, sitting with the people who sat with him, that’s different !
What about Sidney Bechet ? Because a lot of avant-garde saxophonists always refer to him…
I don’t really know him, I know he influenced John Coltrane, Wayne Shorter. This is history. A lot of musicians refer to Louis Armstrong. I think it really depends on where you are, but for me it’s important to have a foundation in the history, but it’s also important to move ahead, and to try to come with your own identity in this music.
Do you think an evolution is still possible in jazz, or are we at the end of the process ?
I would not personally say it’s now possible, but I hope something will happen soon, for the journalists will stop asking that question (laughters)… I don’t think something will happen soon, but I think the main thing about is who we are, in this place where we are now, if something does happen I don’t think people will know that, because everybody is looking for something that is so drastic, and maybe sometimes it’s just lots of steps. Maybe somebody is doing something here, or someone is doing something there, but we don’t know about it, and another thing to consider is that if you don’t have an opportunity to keep creating so you can’t come up with that. If the younger musicians have to continue to go back - they have to go back and then they can move forward, then we can expect the music to go forward, because they’re still learning. It’s like if you play the music of Herbie Hancock, and you can’t go beyond that, so there’s no way you’re gonna do that. I think sometimes for the younger musicians, it’s really hard for them. A person like myself, I think I had a better opportunity because I’ve had so much experiments.But at the same time I just play the music I love to play. I’m not thinking about am I changing the music, I am just thinking about are you happy playing the music. Are you giving the people something they can be happy with, are you giving them something of history at the same time. Giving them the opportunity to hear somethig that’s different. I can do all of it. You hear something, it might not be what you wanted to hear, but as long as it’s fresh…I want the music to be fresh, I like to challenge myself with the musicians. We go to the bandstand and we don’t know what we’ll play, you get there and you start to create. Consistently maybe tonight is a great night, maybe tomorrow might not be as you expected it would be. For it’s music, and that what’s music is about. You try and you keep going.
How is marketing affecting jazz ? In the choice of repertoire, in the choice of the musicians ?
Oh you know it’s strange, I’ve always thought they’re marketing jazz better. If you give the people a chance to get the music, I think some people would choose that. If jazz was performed in TV, if we had MTV, I think we would be exposed to that people. I think what’s amazing about jazz, it’s thatit is a small community of people who understand it. I see people coming to my concerts saying to me : This is the first time I’ve been to a jazz concert. I say to them : This is the first time you’ve been to a music concert because of course we play jazz, but we play music. They find they really enjoyed themselves. Some say I didn’t know what it was, but I’ve enjoyed it. So it’s just education, then they go out and find to buy some records, and so they educate themselves about it. And not only go to a Kenny Garrett concert, go to another one, and compare, and see what it is you want. So I think the most important thing if we can be marketed, like a pop artist, is that then people would know, we’d be exposed, we need television.
But isn’t there the risk that a big label will tell you what kind of music to play, who with ? Music that fits the market ?
I think we have to find a way that we can market what creative artists do. I’m not saying we have to play music from TV. I dont think we have to do that. If someone choose to do that, they choose that. I am an artist. Of course I have played with people like Sting or Peter Gabriel in front of 80 000 people, so I know what’s happening when you play for 80 000 people. It might be difficult for jazz artists to do that. But I think we are thinking jazz in a club situation, we have to think of a bigger future. I can play for 80 000 persons instead of playing for 8 000 people I think it’s a people perception how jazz should be. If it should be in a small club internet.
The photos of your records are very well chosen, who takes care of this ?
That’s my choice, that’s not the record company choice. Maybe it would be different for that. On my Cds I choose the way I represent myself, it’s not you have to do it this way. I definitely have freedom.
Most of the pop artists don’t have that freedom ?
Well, that’s the difference, That’s why we have not access on MTV. I think with jazz they can be on. To me I hope one day they can be on a level that more people accept it, I think if you keep it to a certain artist level and also you have to find what level, I mean some of my artists are still people who were with Miles Davis, in that time, but I want to find younger people with older people and bring them together, because we need that. Because I think, with the whole marketing, if we can have the same vehicle as they have, we would be a better force.
What do you think of these jazz festivals where you have Deep Purple, Black Velvet, rock stars, etc… ?
Well, they are business people, and they are taking well. The problem is how do we get to younger people, for you get together people in by bringing younger people with the music that they like. I don’t know if they call it jazz, but if they call it music, and if it is a music festival, then that’s ok. But I think the thing about, jazz just needs to be exposed, put it on the same stage with those guys, but that’s open up for those guys. But they put it on a small stage because honestly a limited of amount people want to stay. I mean I’ve prooved it with people, we’ve played it in places where people didn’t know what they expected, and they said : woah ! this is different. This is jazz with guys who reach more people, that’s my whole point, we play music, and we can be listened to by the same people who watch MTV. Just take care and put them on the same stage as Sting, and don’t say jazz is made of quiet, and then see what happens. That’s another way of marketing.
And you have a phenomenon like Kenny G who sells a lot of records, when he can hardly play and doesn’t have any ideas to say. It’s a strange thing. How many records does a jazzman sell in America ?
I don’t really know how many can be sold, but I think in America it’s marketing. If you can get the same team behind, and they believe in Keny Garrett, you can get the same kind. It’s somone who believed in him who made Kenny G that. And they did that. That’s the same person who did with Woody Houston, he said we can make him that. That’s the same person who said we can make a Miles Davis. Now I think they are dealing with individuals whose personality corresponds to someone who can go on the stage and make people come back. That’s the same with the pop music.
You played with Miles Davis in Lisbon in april 1991, he died in september. How was it at that time?
He was trying doing his best at that time because sometimes he was weak and sometimes he was in great shape.Towards the end it was hard, because I mean in the beginning he would come out and he would lead the bandstand, and it was all right. And sometimes he would come out and he didn’t play but stayed on the bandstand. When he played he sounded great.
Did you think he was about to die, was it a shock to you ?
He was always in an hospital to do a check up, supposedly. We never knew. He was always in and out.
Is it true that after a performance he would say to the musicians you did that right, you did that wrong ?
For me he wasn’t that type, Miles gave me the freedom to be me. But with the rythm section he had conversation with the drum and the bass players about what they should do. For me it was a great experience with Miles because he asked questions all the time. If I wanted to talk about music, bebop songs, he called me to his room and we talked about music. But other than that he was actually doing the sessions for…, well I forgot who for, and I don’t know if they will come out. He asked me my opinion because he had that trust in me about what I knew in music.
What is the most important thing you learnt from Miles Davis ?
Just to be me, just to be myself and keep trying to change myself. One time he told me I played like a beginner. He didn’t really hit me by that point, I didn’t know what he was talking about. One time I was playing with my own band and this time he hit me. He said : Just go on, like a beginner, just keep it fresh, because a beginner doesn’t know and he keeps it fresh. That was one of the most important things because I’ve always stuck to it. You know you can practise things, and deconstruct them. As you try different things, you challenge yourself, but you have to keep it fresh. You can work from that source, you come back to a point that jazz comes, and it’s different, but it’s always fresh.
Did he leave a lot of material of live recordings ?
I think there is a lot but I don’t know who decides to release that.
He played as a sideman in one of your record, how did it happen ?
It was a great thing to me because he had done this with Cannonball Adderley. It was so funny, when I called him he said he was expecting me to call him. He said : we’ll play together, it’s lot fun.